Sundays were horrible… Dad would make my younger brother and I get up and get dressed and WALK to church, something like 2 miles, while he stayed home and read the paper and drank coffee and got a huge breakfast ready, since we weren’t allowed to eat until after we got back from church.

With collection plate offerings in hand ($1 each), the first thing we did when we got to church was to gorge ourselves on donuts and hot chocolate because we were STARVING. Then after the service, we’d s l o w l y walk home, trying to make ourselves hungry again, because we knew that waiting for us was a gigantic meal of bacon and eggs and hash browns and pancakes and saudage and toast and jelly and… well, Sunday afternoons were usually spent in a kiddie food coma.

As for falling from the faith, for me it started with a burgeoning love of science fiction novels sometime in 1968… Ray Bradbury and Isaac Asimov and Arthur C. Clark, and of course a copy of Asimov’s ‘The Foundation Trilogies’ given to me by a childless Boy Scout leader/volunteer who, looking back on it now, was likely some type of pedophile, though thankfully I was spared from his leanings. I still have that book and shudder when I see his note to me inside the cover, written in pencil. Ew.

Anyways, I read and freaked out on Clarke’s ’2001- A Space Odyssey’ novel… the whole concept just MADE SENSE TO ME, way moreso than anything we studied in catechism. Soon afterwards Dad took me to see the film release in the theater and… sitting there in the theater, I had what I now know was a personal epiphany: religion was bunk, a sham, nothing but baloney. The concepts now (then) in my head, thanks to Mr. Clarke, would forever bend my mind away from religion and towards a much greater understanding that we humans beings KNOW NOTHING except what we teach and learn ourselves.

I was joking with Dad recently about that moment in my young life and he harumphed and told me that movie was and is still the single worst movie he had ever seen. Good for him, and good for me. I’ve never looked back since, and I can now say that my life without religion, without mythical and fable-filled dogma has been a bejewled existence of happiness and sorrow, of learning and joy and hope and the knowledge that when I’m gone, I’m done.

Thanks, Rechelle…we really are a community, and I for one am glad to be part of yours.

Disagree!

Athiests are not a subcatorgory of human beings. No, atheists are human beings with that belief system. Just like J’s comment led me to believe that J was assuming that all atheists are selfish, wrong, etc, your comment leads me to believe that you believe that all athiests are, “They know right and wrong, they love their spouses, children and friends and want the best for them.” To which I disagree. Because neither assumption is correct.

Human beings are like other human beings because we’re human. All humans despite they’re belief system have the capacity to be either good, bad, right, wrong, etc…

I’m sorry I was quoting J who was quoting me and asking J’s question and my response was that there are selfish people form all walks of life. And that the slope of who is and isn’t mentally ill seems to be a quite slippery one.

um correct me if I’m wrong..

You’re wrong, SO wrong. It looks like you’ve been listening to the slanderous lies your preacher has been telling, and failing to engage the mind that evolution gave you.

isn’t that what an athiest does.. whatever THEY want. Not being accountable or held to ANYONE or ANYTHING?

Wrong. First, you’re confusing belief with morality. An atheist (not athiest) is a person who does not believe in any gods. Period. End of definition. That doesn’t say anything about the person’s morals.

Let’s ignore that lapse of reason and examine your preacher’s lies a bit more. Suppose all atheists behaved the way you describe. It wouldn’t be long before such despicable sociopaths would run afoul of the law. A whole society of such people would be a living hell. What does the evidence show? American studies backed by government statistics show that non-theists are dramatically under-represented in prison populations. And surveys in Scandinavia, where atheists make up a much higher proportion of the population, show rates of criminality are lower than in the US (and incidentally, indices of social health (happiness etc) are higher). So it looks like atheists and other non-theists lead more moral lives than theists.

Most atheists I’ve encountered use as their moral base the Golden Rule (which existed long before the Bible). Some go further, adopting Humanism, for example, to flesh things out a bit. Have a look at the IHEU’s declaration, and in particular, these words:

Humanism … affirms the worth, dignity and autonomy of the individual and the right of every human being to the greatest possible freedom compatible with the rights of others. … Humanists believe that morality is an intrinsic part of human nature based on understanding and a concern for others, needing no external sanction.

One more thing. Consider the motivations of your clergy. Atheism represents an existential threat to the church and the clergy’s livelihood. It is in their interests to lie about atheism, to try to keep you from checking it out yourself. You’ve been a good little sheep, stuck your brain in neutral, and uncritically accepted their lies. Not impressive.

βPer

I can’t tell what you are quoting and what you yourself are saying, but here’s my take on the above:

OK, let me formally correct you. NO. That perception of an atheist is totally without merit. That is the way a sociopath behaves — without regard for others.

Atheists are just like other human beings. They know right and wrong, they love their spouses, children and friends and want the best for them. And to be honest, it’s a little frightening that I even need to explain this. When I hear people say, “But for the influence of God in my life, I would be out raping and murdering people.” Really? The only thing standing in the way of you raping and murdering is a belief in God? Please excuse me while leave the room and run away.

Children don’t need to be taught that it isn’t fair if I give them one cookie and the child sitting next to them five cookies. They inherently know that isn’t fair. They know that it hurts when their playmate whacks them on the head with a toy. As parents, we can use these situations as an object lesson to teach morality without the unnecessary unseen spirit who keeps track of their misdeeds.

We can teach them “You don’t like it when Jane hits you on the head with a block. Do you think that it’s OK to hit someone else in that way? Would they like it? How would that make them feel?” Instead of, “God doesn’t like it when you hit Johnny on the head so don’t do it anymore.”

The lesson sinks in better and is absorbed into their behavior better if it isn’t covered in “God wants you to behave this way.” Because later, they discover that God will forgive their sins so if they misbehave, they can ask forgiveness. Then what stops them from harming others? If they have no innate moral compass (that does NOT depend upon a deity for guidance), why would they not act in a selfish manner?

um correct me if I’m wrong..but isn’t that what an athiest does.. whatever THEY want. Not being accountable or held to ANYONE or ANYTHING? Not caring how/what their family, friends etc. feel, think, say or do.. only themselves! Not that they need to agree with eachother… but consider eachother. If they don’t like something, they can just pretend it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t fit with what they want for THEMSELVES.”

I don’t suppose to know what any athiest thinks or does. But when I first read your comment before I read the responses I was thinking, what are you saying. Are you saying then that all athiests are selfish and since my comment was about selfish churches and selfish christians therefore they are equal? That athiests are like christians and vice versa? Or perhaps selfish folks come from all walks of life, to which I agree.

Then you go on to say you’re mentally ill and atleast you admit it. Well what is mental illiness? Is there really a thing as mental illness. Or is it just another box to put around (label) or to put someone in? And if there is a thing as mental illness, where is the line in the sand that defines what it is and what it isn’t? At what point does it just become another means of labeling and boxing? Take the obvious ADHD, which so many drug happy doctors are willing to diagnose, is it truly a mental illness or is it just a normal variation of the human mind? At what point as a society did we redraw the lines to say that this is what will be normal and what will be considered ill? At what point will the line stop being drawn and redrawn? What if a bunch of well educated, like minded folks got together and lobbied that from here on out all lefties are mentally ill because only right handed people are normal? Or that all people with blue have some sort of void in their mind causing whatever odd behavior, so you folks are all mentally ill? What is mental illness? Are we all mentally ill? Could you imagine a society where we all looked, thought, and acted alike? Is that where we are all headed when we draw and redraw the lines of what is normal and what is not? Does Hitler and his youth ring a bell?

Beebs – A love for Jane makes us one. She was the master of snark. And Absolutely I agree! To HELL WITH THE BACKSPACE KEY!!!

I guess I’m weird, I don’t like snark, when none of us know each other and we’re just trying to share thoughts. My backspace key gets a heck of a workout here because I try my best to avoid snark because to me it just inflames what could be cool, thoughtful conversation.

I read something here about my type of church that sounded judgmental and generalizing. I wanted to add another side without getting into a fight. Every time I try to do that, it is answered with a snide comment, by you and others. MAN, and Christians are judgmental?!
FYI, I’m not even that Christian!!!! I LOVE Jane Austin!!! I’m an NPR-listening, public library-loving science geek!!!! Give me a break!!!! To hell with the backspace key! :-)

Jane Austen was the daughter of a clergyman, nearly became engaged to another, and clergymen play central roles in most of her novels. Rev Geo Austen was her father

Jane Austen died in her sister’s arms July 18,1817. She was 41 years old and is buried in Winchester Cathedral.

Her writings are awesome.